Hello,
I have been playing violins for over 3 years now. I am at Suzuki vol 4, whilst learning other individual pieces out of interest.
Due to my greed, I ended up getting a $2800 violin(it's a big sum for a full time student in a non-music degree). I believe that it will be a violin that I will hold onto at least for the rest of my life.
Now, the problem is that this is too precious, I have trouble carrying it anywhere other than in my hands indoors to play it. For that reason, this winter, I barely got any practice done. Nearing the end of the winter, I found a cheap 16" viola in local ad and bought it last night. I had the most fun for the year yet playing/cleaning it.
Here's what I've noticed:
1. I need to stretch my fingers to get the right notes. This is helping me to gain better flexibility in my left hand.
2. It gives me a heck of a hard time staying in tune, because the spacings are all different, it's making me to do a tremendous amount of shifts and ear training.
3. I'm ATTACKING the viola with my heaviest violin bow. This is giving me heck a lot of confidence in bowing my violin. It also came with a viola bow, but I like using my Yitamusic heavy snakewood violin bow.
4. It's no violin, it's a different animal. Responsiveness is much slower than my Socia(violin).
5. The harmonics seem extremely easier.
6. C string is addictive to play with.
For some reason, while I bought this viola for $180, it sounds and feel like something worth a lot more. Other than A string not being tamed(I shall see my luthier about moving the soundpost), and I'm having a lot of fun.
The viola overall seems to give me a LOT of practice in playing my violin, after I played the viola for 30 minutes, I got back to my violin, and shifts, vibrato were extremely easy, and somehow intonation was excellent(because I'm adjusting back to the violin spacing). Also, the tone quality was GREAT because I was bowing a lot more confidently.
I will likely give the viola a name, and a new soundpost, and a case slowly over the year, because I'm apparently not doing a good job saving up for a new violin bow.
I should also mention that I have had 2 surgeries in my left shoulder, so, violin is already a stretch to play the violin. Viola, I have to support my left elbow on my knee while playing. I did this when I first started playing violins, eventually I can play standing up. Hopefully my range of motion improves with viola.
Do others also use the viola as a "training aid" or "secondary violin"?
That's the MOST important thing for us hobby-players! Having fun!
Beware of injuring yourself. 2 surgeries are more than 2 good reasons to approach viola playing with heightened awareness of ergonomic challenges. Find a decent viola bow. Have fun.
With a strained left shoulder, Rocky, you're right. I'm essentially playing the viola in the position that I first re-started playing my violin 2 months after my 2nd surgery.
I have my left elbow supported by my left knee and the viola is almost completely in front of me.
Quick question, I've already contacted my luthier, but is it "normal" for less expensive Viola to have a very strong C and weak A? I am asking my luthier to take a look and possibly adjust the soundpost.
Also, I think the snakewood bow is doing just fine at least for now. It doesn't seem to have enough grip on C, but I'm first going to try stickier rosin.
Some conservatories and university music departments require a year of a course called " viola for violinists ". Kim Kaskashian and Pinchas Zukerman recommend violinists supplement their studies with viola. I think there is something about playing viola which is beneficial to violinists. I think the benefits lie in the fact that there are less things that one can " get away with " technically speaking than on violin, such as using little bow hair, relying on the index finger for sound in the right hand, less curved fingers in the left hand, etc.
A fine professional violinist that I know said that he practiced viola regularly while studying violin at conservatory, and he feels that it really helped him.
As Lieschen said, I agree that short cuts reveal themselves somewhat more quickly on the viola. Small errors in setup, posture, sound point, etc., are more quickly punished.
I find that Bernardel violin rosin is fine for the viola. I have a Cadenza "three star" carbon fiber viola bow that I like a lot, it cost around $450. You do want a viola bow, the viola needs the additional weight.
Your weak "A" string could be an adjustment issue and you should have a luthier try with your soundpost. But one tendency that I notice in myself is that I want my uppermost string to really stand out the way it does on the violin. But this will not happen on the viola because the uppermost string is wound like all the others, it is not just a wire. Both my D and A strings sound like they should produce more sound (and clearer sound, the D string is the tiniest bit sandy sounding) based on what my G and C strings do. But my teacher said this is not uncommon in very new instruments (it's a 2015) and that as it ages the upper register will "open up." And then there is the possibility that other strings may be better. I am playing on the Dominants that came on the instrument from the seller.
If you are at Suzuki Book 4 then you *might* consider starting some of the less difficult movements from the Bach Cello Suites. In fact some of them might be in the Suzuki viola books already, there are even a few in the violin books (transcribed). The D Minor Prelude is wonderful.
The first few Suzuki viola books have essentially the same "songs" as the violin books - just in a different key (one less sharp so the fingering and bowing are the same) so you should be able to advance on viola to the same level as your violin playing - pretty much by tomorrow - and learn to read the alto clef at the same time.
As you move up in positions on a violin (14") your left-hand fingers get closer together. Just so, as you move down from 3rd position to 1st on a 16" viola your left-hand fingers move from (what is essentially) violin spacing to a little wider spacing. With practice our hands (nerves) seem to learn to relate finger spacing for proper intonation to the length of arm extension (or perhaps it is to elbow angle).
Andy
I'm basically currently trying to play all pieces that I know one fifth low. Even one octave low, just to take advantage of the C string. I just LOVE the double stops with C and G. I hope to try some typical Cello pieces eventually, just at a higher pitch.
The viola is 1950~70 Western German violin. You might find it cool that the bridge is branded by Peter J. Mach, the guy who invented Mach one shoulder rest. It came with Dominant strings. They feel a little old, but I doubt I'll be replacing them anytime soon.
Andy, what I'm finding is that the finger spacing on my violin in 1st position is identical to the 3rd position on my 16" viola. It's the 1st and 2nd position on viola that's causing problems right now. Again, it's a good thing because It's giving me a lot of practice. I'm making mental notes that the 3rd position is "violin 1st and up" position. I'm very well in tune once I make the accurate shift from 1st to 3rd, the shift itself is often off.
Paul, my snakewood violin bow is 69.8grams. I think it is heavy enough. The snakewood violin bow I found is to be too heavy and causes the "whiney" sound off of my violin. It seems to suit the viola well.
70 g is in the right range, yes.
My initial reason for trying viola was to improve my violin playing. But then I got hooked. My viola and violin cost exactly the same but my viola is a better instrument. And after all the growling my viola does, I find my violin lacking in character. So much for improving my violin playing...
I should also mention, Yuck! I've got my first Viola Hickey/Acne.
You have started down the slippery slope.
"Just trying" the viola is like "just trying" heroin. Ditching the screaming E and getting the luscious C in exchange is a change in worldview that is not easily undone. Especially seeing as you are still in your formative years on the violin.
I got a viola "just for fun" at the beginning of Suzuki 2. After about 6 months of kidding myself, I realized that I had become the off scouring of the world---I was a violist.
I still would play my violin when I needed to take an instrument with me when traveling on business. But a couple months ago I purchased a 15.5" viola that I was able to fit in my violin case (with some mods to the case).
Personally, I think the G string on the viola is my fave. When you get the ringing tones playing C on the G.....it's just fabulous.
Violas aren't standardized in any way. You can have a 16" that had a shorter vibrating string length than a 15.5" (may make fingering easier). You can get a 15.5" that may have a bigger sound than a 16"....
Time for you to start learning alto clef, my friend, Im afraid you've got the fever...
I think I may be a closet violist as well. I'll probably come out after completing Suzuki Book 4
No, I'm not coming out of the viola closet. It's fun experimenting but my heart is set on my violin.
Steven J. ...denial. Acceptance is the first step ;p
Playing the viola is addictive, even though I mostly play the violin.
Now, now. Not everyone succumbs to the viola. From the responses to my post "Newish violists: have you jilted your violin?" I concluded that violinists with a lot invested in the violin (such as a professional violin career or violin that's better than their viola) are not likely to make the viola their main instrument. Obvious in hindsight, but some of us have our minds clouded by that C string.
Well,
With the violin, she sings, to my soul. Plus, Socia is an excellent, high valued instrument. Very well balanced a this point. It complements me.
With the viola, I really like how much it rings, but quite unbalanced at least for now, powerful C with weak A. It feels like I'm out of my comfort zone exploring.
For a fair comparison, say I got similar valued Viola, I may consider, but this is an unfair comparison. I did get to touch my luthier's 16+" viola, one that she made, but I couldn't reach for the C string, physically without putting myself in physical pain. My shoulder also limits me to a violin. I with to some day explore the cello.
As for your viola hickey, I have a joking name for it. I call it "The Mark of the Covenant."
"Sign of the beast"
I played Socia earlier today. I am still for Violin.
Here they are by the way:
They look awesome!
Can I still call myself a musician even though I have never as much as touched a viola? Everybody seems to have experience with them to some degree. I feel so inadequate. ;)
Perhaps we can trade at some point? Once I've gotten my fix of Viola for the next little while? Using Seraphim's notion, hey Fox, would you like to take a hit of this viola?
I was hunting for an inexpensive violin with real ebony fittings when I found the viola. I learned the hard way that I am allergic to Rosewood and "ebonizing" formula that they apply on hardwood.
I'm sorry to disappoint Seraphim, but I think I am selling my viola, and some bows to fund myself to get cello.
Wow, so fast? I'm not ready to give up my viola but I'd get a cello (also) if I had a place to put it.
That is quite disappointing.
Have fun toting that rhinoceros around!
And just wait until you find out what a new set of cello $tring$ goes for....
Oh my!
Go for a double bass instead.
That's obviously his next stop....
Then, after that dalliance, he will start in on the brass and woodwinds...
Well, someone was selling a cello for $350 in the local ad. Apparent'y it's been sold before I got to it.
I guess I'll either trade my viola for a practice violin or sell it to save up for yet better bow.
I like playing with the viola, but it's such an asymmetric comparison to my violin. The practice is good, and I am having fun, but the sound is simply grainy and lower quality, in comparison to my good violin. The problem is that I'm too used to the sound quality of my good violin.
Surely no cheap practice violin will match the sound quality of your good violin either. Why not just play and practice on your good violin? Even though it is a lot of money for a student, a $2.800 violin is hardly too precious to be played or carried around - people do this with way more valuable instruments (maybe you should sell the viola and invest in a good case?). I have no problem with either and have never once feared for my violin's safety.
Johanna, that's what I'm concluding with.
I will probably invest in a better case and a bow. It's a vicious cycle.
1. I refuse to take my violin to places
2. I get a back up violin(or viola)
3. I don't like the sound of the backup
4. I sell my backup
5. back to 1.
It's happened to me 6 times now.
...then there's always the risk that you will love your backup violin too much to take it places too. ;)
Steven, break the vicious cycle!
1. Your violin wants to be played! After all, they are not only beautiful to look at, but instruments and items of usage. My old violin is all the more beautiful because of the little bumps and bruises it got during the last century, they tell the story of its life!
2. You love your violin, you are careful, you won't let it out of sight or abandon it on a train, you are planning on a better case: Trust yourself, your violin is in good hands. There is no reason you shouldn't just enjoy it :-)
Fox, that's EXACTLY what happens to my laptops.
Johanna,
the problem is the daily cycles I go through. I have a shared office in my school, so suppose I decide to bring my violin here, I have to leave it to my trust for 7 other students AND their visitors and people who come by for meetings/conferences. I keep the violin at home for this reason.
If I had a number 2 violin to care much less about, I wouldn't feel too insecure leaving it in my office, giving me extra hour at least per day of practice.
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March 10, 2016 at 09:28 PM · About 8 months ago I bought a student 15" Viola listed on craigslist while on vacation at a very good price. I couldn't resist the opportunity so I bought it and brought it home with me on the plane.
I really love the viola sound. Although I took the time to learn alto clef, I don't keep up with it anymore. I just play the treble clef finger patterns on the Viola. I find it makes me really listen to what I'm playing because I can ignore the notes and just play the pattern.
I'm not sure if its good or bad, but I have fun doing it!